Time-travel Paradoxes!

Paul

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Oct 9, 2000
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#1
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THE PARADOXES…
If you went back in time and visited your granny during her ninth birthday don’t kill her! Because if you put a gun to her head and pull the trigger she could not have given birth to your mum. YOU certainly were never born…

Therefore you could not have killed anyone as you never existed. Now this means your granny couldn’t have been killed by you. She didn’t die nine years old. This permits you to be born.

If you were born could you go back and kill your granny? No, not your real granny. This general idea has been used in Back to the future. Marty nearly stops himself from being born when he prevents his parents from falling in love.

Solving The Problem
1, You simply can’t change history meaning if you go back in time you have no free will(as shown in Twelve Monkeys, Crime Traveler etc. Events will get in your way if you try to kill your granny. YOU CAN’T DO IT.

2, When you so-called change history you’re actually moving up a different branch in time into another universe. The previous universe (where you were born) still exists. When you fire the gun you’re really killing another version of your grandmother.

3, Any actions you make in the so-called past has no affects on the present. It’s a different time-line universe.

The laws true solutions don’t present real time-travel as you go into another world.

Conclusion
We can’t simply use the grandmother paradox to rule out time-travel claiming it causes logical inconsistencies. We need to look at all the possibilities.


How could we build a time machine?
The mathematics of general relativity suggest that under extreme conditions space-time might become so warped it would be possible to travel back in time. There is also the possibility of tunnels in time created by negative mass.

Very long rotating cylinders of matter-proposed by Frank Tipler

Kerr’s spinning blackholes-since most stars spin this becomes worth looking (proposed by Roy Kerr).

Cosmic strings-(as Richard Cott suggested)

Travelling faster than light – would take us back in time(as suggested by solutions to relativity). Wormholes might allow us to outpace light (if you walk through the short cut quicker than light through convential (normal) space.

Tachyons -are sub-atomic particles which always travel faster than light and therefore move back in time constantly. They have not yet been found and remain hypethical.

Contracting Universe- Time might then be running backwards but since everything else also would it’s unsuitable.

Macro-wormholes(Kip Thorne showed how we could use it as a time machine).


time - paradox
Paradoxes

Grandfather paradox
Suppose you could go back in time, lets say several decades and found your grandfather when he was two years old. In his house you could grab a knife and stab him to death. He doesn't get the chance to have children with your grandmother. Therefore either your mother or father doesn't get born. Your parents can't give birth to you because one of them don't exist. You could never have been born and don't even exist. But could your grandfather have been killed by someone who doesn't exist? He must have lived through his childhood. This would allow you to exist if this is the case. Seemingly you can go back in time to commit the murder if you are born but then you would never have been born. And so on and so on. This situation is not consistent with itself. It doesn't make sense and can't possibly happen.


Solutions

1, You simply can't change the past. Time will stop you limiting your freedom while you're in the past from your point of view. This puts the concept of freewill in serious danger especially if you tell people what's going to happen to them in their future. If you believe when you go back in time you are from one possible future from everyone else's point of view they can simply go up any root in time they want.

According to quantum physics Many Worlds theory there are a huge amount of universes where every possibility occurs between them all. In some you're the opposite sex. In some you won the lottery etc.

You might be heading towards the universe you originally came from before you travelled back in time. Everything will happen the way you remember it. But all the people you meet are free to decide what they want to do and enter a different universe. Since it's not possible for you to be there you disappear from their lives. Meeting a time traveller from your future could therefore be very strange.

2, A parallel universe might be created when you seem to change the past. Imagine if time itself was just like a tree. The different branches show different ways events could have happened. Every time we decide to do or not to do something time splits. Even if we are not aware we decided something it have affects. Quantum physics reveals a many worlds theory like this.
Conclusion
Since this parallel universe is not really your past (despite it's first appearance) anything you do there does not affect you. You can prevent a version of yourself from being born because you are not really related to anyone there. They just look very like your family and friends. You are not home! You may be somewhere that looks like the place you live but a different universe in quantum physics is a completely different reality.


3, No matter what you do in what is really a parallel universe you will do back to your previous universe which is not affected by your previous actions. A space-time wormhole could lead you back to your original unaffected universe.


What came out of the wormhole if the ball never went into it?

Another common example of a paradox is a ball that goes through a wormhole connected with a moment in the past. Therefore it comes out of the other space-time wormhole mouth actually before it went in! Then what might happen? If the ball then hits it's younger self out of the way of the mouth then it never goes in. But if the ball never did go in the wormhole then how can it ever come out. The existence of the older version of the ball is destroyed i.e. it never falls back in time. But then this version certainly can't hit the younger version out of the way. So it must go into the wormhole as a collision with it's older self is evidently the only force that could and did stop the ball from entering the wormhole. This of course is unexplainable and is logically inconsistent.

But the situation could happen differently to allow it to become self consistent.

1, What if after the ball comes out of the wormhole at an earlier time it does hit it's previous self but this collision is what makes the ball fall into the mouth in the first place! It hits the other version into the mouth. This would imply that the past or present is affected by the future. In fact in this case the past is dependant on the future.

2, The ball might simply hit it's other self only slightly so the direction of the ball is not altered enough to cause a paradox.

3, The ball might just miss it's younger self.

Nature might protect time and prevent paradoxes. From theories and many stories it's clear that paradoxes cannot happen in the real world.

Other types of paradoxes
In the terminator movies John had something important to tell Sarah. Thank her for her help through the hell. Tell her not to give up or he will never exist.
Who wrote the speech?
John certainly didn't write it. He was told it since he was a kid from Sarah who could remember it. Sarah just recalls what Kyle told her in 1984. Kyle just remembered what John told him to say.
Conclusion
No one wrote it. It exists somehow but not by John, Kyle or Sarah being creative. No one had to write it because it was created by the affect the future on the past had on each other.

If I in 2000 study the history of work done in a private factory and learn about the development of a time machine! Their scientists worked from designs and plans noted in a book (never published)they used. They had no idea how to achieve such technology until they read it.
Then to experiment with temporal(time) paradoxes I am sent back to 1983. The entire building has not even been built as I arrive. Later accidentally I meet one of the scientists and talk to him. When I hear how excited he is I hand him that book which he uses future success. The answers! He is more than willing to read and use the book.

But who came up with the idea of how the time machine is built?
Not any of the scientists as they just followed instructions in that book.
Not me as all I did was hand a scientist a book. Noone actually wrote the book and no one had to work it out.

Is this allowed by physical laws?
Noone really knows...
 

NoTime

New member
Sep 21, 2008
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#2
There is no grandfather paradox in the multiverse scenario. In a multiverse, your grandfather's multiple histories included many in which he was not murdered and many in which he was murdered.

Those many histories in which he was murdered included some involving different male or female murderers who killed him. It's possible that you were one of those murderers in one of your previous lifetimes or incarnations.
 
S

SHADOWshadow

Guest
#3
Paradox can't hold a candle to "twinadox". Thats when you time travel back and MARRY your gradndmother and become your own grandpaw. What if you had a twin brother and the THREE of you all show up one day, wich one is the other you? How do you know that there shouldn't be four of you and somebodys missing? Cheesh man!! I'm going to get some sleep, and try not to read this thread next time...er wait a minute, on the other hand.........the me in a paralell reality may infulence me to change my mind.............
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1.21 Jiga-watts

Guest
#4
Let's get away from travelling to the past for a moment. Let's look at what was made popular in Back to the Future pt 2, where Marty sees his son, or his girlfriend sees herself.
It cannot happen! If you left time, you would be considered 'missing', or dead. The truth is, you don't exist from the point in which you lept forward in time. You therefore cannot see yourself, or your son, because you stopped existing at that point in the past where you left.

Is this a proper paradox? Is there any reasoning I am missing that says you can see your future self?

Look forward to responses.

1.21 Jiga-watts
 

NoTime

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Sep 21, 2008
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#5
True. If you leave this time, you will not be here until you return. But, if you are aive in the future as you were alive in the past, then you could visit yourself because you are there. Your present self is different from your past or future self. This definitely applies to the past because you know you lived in the past and if you can go there, then you can visit yourself.
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Crono

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Sep 26, 2000
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#6
I think there is two ways to look at this Jiga Watts. The first one is where you can actually change the past so it effects the future. If you were presumed dead in the future, then you could go back to the time right after you left and nothing would have been changed. However if you leave again, it will just be the same as before.

The second one is where you can't change the past, and you'll only be creating a parallel universe. What used to be your future is now your present, and since what used to be your present is now your past, you can't change the past, so you'll still be presumed dead at when you left off. And so you can still go back in the past and live there as usual, you won't be changing the future.

I think that's how those theories go.
 

Paul

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Oct 9, 2000
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#7
It is very interesting what would happen if you left the present and reached the future. In The Time Machine the time travelers asks about himself and people claim he went missing when he left on his journey through time.
It seems like an BTTF2 Marty was taken away in 1985 so his kids and everything couldn't exist in 2015...
But the existance of his kids might just be evidence that they will later return to 1985 to do all those things! This would imply that everything they are going to do have already been decided!
It became clear the the future is NOT set as Doc claimed the future hasn't been written yet. So how could they travel into what does not exist? Even when Marty went to 1955 he must have been from the future from some people's point of view?
The future they travelled to might just have been one possible future! In the quantum many worlds theory there are an infinite amount of futures where every possibility occurs...
 
C

Cocurious

Guest
#8
In response to 1.21 jiga-watts. If you go into the future and see yourself, then by rights you will succeed in whatever you are doing in the future, and make it back to the present. If you don't see yourself, then one could asume that you never made it back to your own time in the present.
 

NoTime

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Sep 21, 2008
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#9
In some probabilities, you traveled to the future and made it back, in others you did not make it back. In some probabilities you are alive in a future time and in others you are not alive. A multiverse contains all possibilities and all combinations of possibilities.

If you can travel to the future, you can meet a future self or not, depending on which probable future you go to.
 

NoTime

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Sep 21, 2008
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#10
...also, in a multiverse containing all possibilities, you can't change anything because whatever changes you try to make are already there as one of the possibilities.
 
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1.21 Jiga-Watts

Guest
#11
Thank you all for your responses. It's a fascinating discussion, to be sure, and one that seemingly has endless possibilities.

I'm pretty set on the paradox I raised, however. It just doesn't seem possible that you can see your future self.

I'll check in every now and then. Continue in your hypothesizing!

1.21 Jiga-Watts
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#12
Wow! Paul is right on the money. I was just about to give up hope on anyone knowing who Tipler or Kerr was on this worldline.

By the way, #2 is the correct answer and the basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year and end in 2034 with the first "time machine" built by GE. Too bad we can't post pictures or I'de show it to you.
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
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#13
TimeTravel_0-
Guess what? You can put pictures on Doc's board... we would like to see it.
here is the URL: http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
Im sure he would be more than happy to post the picture for you. He is the moderator for the montauk section on this web site.
Look forward to seeing your picture!
thanks,
pamela
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
2,431
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#15
Time travel_0-
Iam registered on Doc's site.
you can send it to me and I will post it for you.and if you want you can always set up a new e-mail account and only use it once.
There may be a site where you could post the picture with no info but I personally don't know of any. because of what people would put up with no accountability.
any other info you give will remain confidential . besides your IP address is already logged on this forum when you post. I'll help you out if you want.or you could just e-mail Doc yourself Im sure he would put it up for you without registering.just explain the situation to him. I feel he is very trustworthy. Actually he posted someone elses picture annonymously that claimed he built a time machine. his name was "director". thats it.

sincerely,
pamela
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
2,431
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#20
Questions for timetravel_0 with permission to post.
Pamela:
by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are
in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and
hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a
bright flash of light?

Timetravel_0:
Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the
destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a
small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in
a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.
You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and
it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under.
At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more
depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side
effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.

No bright flash of light is seen. Outside, the vehicle appears to
accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or
close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet
radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.
After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the
unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great
deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a
small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you
bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short
period and a carbon sensor tells us when it's too dangerous. The C204 unit
is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour
at 100% power.

You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or
the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise
from static electricity.


Pamela: 1. what are some of your memories of 2036?

Timetravel_0: I remember 2036 very clearly. It is difficult to describe 2036 in detail
without spending a great deal of time explaining why things are so
different. In 2036, I live in central Florida with my family and I'm
currently stationed at an Army base in Tampa. A world war in 2015 killed
nearly three billion people. The people that survived grew closer together.
Life is centered around the family and then the community. I can not
imagine living even a few hundred miles away from my parents. There is no
large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational
items. Food and livestock is grown and sold locally. People spend much more
time reading and talking together face to face. Religion is taken seriously
and everyone can multiple and divide in the heads.

Pamela: 2. can you send me more of the manual?

Timetravel_0: I will considering it but I do not expect they are worth anything to most
people except as a curiosity.

Pamela: 3.what would happen if you would meet yourself on another world line?

Timetravel_0: It has always surprised me why that concept is so hard for people to imagine
and accept. Nothing would happen. The universe would not end and there are
no paradox problems that threaten existence. Temporal space-time is made up
of every possible quantum state. The Everett Wheeler model is correct. I
have met and/or seen myself twice on different world lines. The first was a
training mission and the second is now. I was born in 1998 so the other
"me" is 2 on this world line. There is a saying where I come from....Every
possible thing that can happen or will happen has already happened
somewhere.

Pamela: 4.How is this world line different from your own?

Timetravel_0: For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also
noticed little things like news events that happen at different times,
football games won by other teams...things like that. I would guess the
temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2
percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence
becomes from my point of view.

Pamela: 5.Is the vehicle a jeep?

Timetravel_0: No...its a 1967 Chevrolet..

Pamela: 6.Are you having normal dreams right now? any out of body experiences?
drawing you to different times? Do you dream you wake up in other places
and other times?

TimeTravel_0: No strange dreams or other experiences. Everything is pretty much the way I
expected it.

Pamela: 7.are you able to control where you go or is it random?

Timetravel_0: Yes, it can be controlled. However, the distortion unit has operational
limits. Imagine your path through time is through a cone. The farther away
from the center of the cone, the more differences you will see in the world
line. The C204 begins to "break away" at about 60 years. This means the
level of confidence drops rapidly after 60 years of travel and the world
line divergence increases. In other words, if I wanted to go back 2000
years and meet Christ, there is a better than average chance I would end up
on a world line where he was never born. The computer units and gravity
sensors "record" your trip and you are quite easily able to return to your
point of origin. I am aware that research is being done on faster units
with more accurate clocks. I imagine that they will be able to go back
farther with a higher degree of divergence confidence.

Pamela: 8. are you feeling drawn back to your own time or are you stable in this
world?

Timetravel_0: I'm not sure what you mean by stable. If you mean mentally...there are many
things that bother me here but being with my parents right now is important
to me. Physically, the only thing really wrong is the number of colds I
get.

Pamela: 9.Are you able to go back to your own world line?

Timetravel_0: Yes.

Pamela: 10.how are you protecting yourself from radiation? it alters DNA if you
dont.

Timetravel_0: I'm not sure what radiation you mean. If you mean from the unit, you can
see it vents X-rays and Gamma radiation out of the rear. As long as you
stay away from that, you should be okay. I keep a radiation detector with
me to check my environment and make sure the unit isn't "leaking".

Pamela: 11.How long would you say that ultraviolet radiation lasts? about 10
seconds?
and when you are in that light can you see anything around you or does the
light kind of "fill up" everything and that is all you can see at the
time?

Timetravel_0: The light bending only lasts a second. Its like driving under a tunnel and
being in total black.

Pamela: 12.Do your people know where you are right now? Can you communicate with
them?
do you have a biological implant?

Timetravel_0: No. They do not know where I am and I can not communicate with them.
Interesting idea though. From their point of view, I will return almost
exactly at the same moment I left. From their viewpoint, I will only have
aged more than expected.

Pamela: 13. after the flash of light is gone are you then in another time? what
does it look like as the new time unfolds? Is it just there? or does it
slowly come into view? does it fade in and out for a time?

Timetravel_0: While the machine is on. Everything is black. When the machine is turned
off, it is the reverse affect. It appears you are driving out from a
bridge. To tell you the truth, I'm usually sleeping when the unit turns off
but yes...it does appear that the world fades in from black.

Pamela: 14. what happens if the device messes up?
Do you end up in space? if it goes offline and shifts ? does a hole open
elsewhere?

Timetravel_0: Good question!!! That one almost never comes up. The hard part of
traveling through time is not the bending of gravity but the plotting of
your course and holding to the basic "position" in your environment. This
is done through a system called VGL (variable gravity lock). Basically, the
unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the "trip"
in pulses. If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself
to the last sample period where the readings were correct. If there is some
sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.

Pamela: 15. what affects are caused on the immediate area where the gravity has
been distorted after you leave it and when you arrive? are there permanent
effects left on the land such as electromagnetic disturbances in that
area?

Timetravel_0: Another good question!!! The only real physical trace is a large chunk of
ground missing from the point of origin and a large pile of dirt at the
destination. The gravity field surrounds a small portion of the earth under
you and takes it along for the ride. There is really no way around this.

Please feel free to post these if you wish.
 
S

Shadow

Guest
#21
Pam, did you ask about going forward in time? Do you need an invite from a future traveler? Where did MR. 0 get the '67 chevy?

Bringing chunks of ground along with you as you casually rewrite the history of entire worlds? I guess thats why Docs' Delorian was fitted with levitation equipment, to make a fast get away from angry property owners having to fill and grade every time he time jumps.

TimeLine 2015; STOP THE PRESSES!! 3 Billion Killed!!! Oh the presses are already stopped? Now if he time traveled *before* the planet was pulverized it would be a bit more believable.

Does Mr. 0 work for GE? Maybe he owns some GE stock. Speaking of stocks we could all use a hot tip from the guy that already knows who's going to be the next Cisco, Coke or Microsoft.

Most importantly why would Mr. 0 want to talk the likes of us?
 
D

Draco2

Guest
#22
Hey TIMETRAVEL_0!!
That's a very interesting experience you are describing!! I have one question for you, and that is in regards to the climactic of the earth in 2034, had the polar ice caps melted, as they are now doing at an accelorated rate in this current time.

Sincerely, Draco
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#23
In response to Shadow:
Perhaps it’s a bit easier to understand why time travelers do not revel themselves.

Yes, you can travel forward in time. No, you do not need an “invite” from the future. I first saw the car in 2036. The idea was to find a vehicle that would not draw too much attention for the time period. Unfortunately, there were not very many suitable vehicles around in 2036 and I sold the car when I arrived in 2000.

You do not rewrite history. I can only affect what happens here just as easily as you can. Why do people in this time period worry so much about time traveler’s destroying their world line when they have no problem doing it themselves every day?

My goal is not to be believed. Most people do not take news of the war very well but I find that everyone believes it’s inevitable. Even in your own history, are not great inventions and discoveries made during a time of war in your effort to kill and main in new and more efficient ways?

No, I do not work for GE or any other company. Are “stock tips” really the first thing you want to know about in the future? As a representative of your time period, do you realize what that says about you? You should probably know that this time is not remembered for its selflessness, charity or ability to work together.

Why would I want to talk to you? Why don’t you believe you have something interesting or worthwhile to say to someone in the future?

Mr. “O”
 
D

Draco2

Guest
#25
Hey TimeTravel_0!!!

So then what you're saying is that our current computer models are wrong about Glacial and Polar Ice Cap melting, even though they are going by our current emmisions rate and projected emmisions of the growth of fossil fuels consumption?? While Global Warming is factually happening and even if we stopped burning fossil fuels today and stopped destroying the rain forests today, the impact that is already altered our planetary climate would not stop today as the ball is already rolling. The toxins in the ozone layer and the earths lessening inability to creat oxygen, due to the catastrophic daily destruction of the rain forests that give us most of our oxygen, would take longer than beyond the year 2036 to repair itself, even with our help. I find it amazing that if you throw a WWIII into the equation, one devistating enough to cause the death of 3 Billion people, would not add to the excelloration of Global Warming and raise the sea level to the point where in 2036 most of Florida will be underwater. Help me understand what reversed this impending climatic catastrophy..

Sincerely, Draco
 

Janus

New member
Jun 2, 2000
228
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#26
Ok, Mr. 0 . First things: you have to realize that people will be hostile toward you when you make such a big claim. What reason have we to believe you? But, enough thought experiments occur here anyways, so...

I don't think any era in history has been particularly noted for its compassion or selflessness. Why should we be any different?

Ok, so why not give us stock tips? You said you weren't worried about polluting the timeline, right?

As for rewriting history, the normal objection is causality. But, if you use multiple-universe theory, then it's all good. My question is, how do you get back to your proper universe - you said you're very close to your family - how come another jump wouldn't just send you into some third, different universe?

And, finally: what happens if you go back in time to a time when, right where you were standing, there was a giant cement block? Do you just appear inside of it and die? Or do you get pushed away?

Thanks,
Janus.
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#27
To Draco:

You asked about the North Polar ice pack. I never said the environment wasn't a problem. Doesn't water expand when it freezes? If the polar ice cap melted, wouldn't sea level go down? I don't know if there's enough ice for this to make a difference and I'm not an expert on global warming.

Mr. "0"
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#28
To Janus:
Yes, I realize people become hostile. I don’t expect anyone to believe me and I have nothing to sell. I take no offense by it. Just out of curiosity, if you were a time traveler, what do you think it would take to get people to believe you?

I suppose we could agree that no particular era in history is famous for its development of humanity but just once I would like to hear questions like, “What is family life like in the future? How does society deal with poverty? Is AIDS, abortion and drug use still a problem?”

Why don’t I give you a stock tip? The money you make would dilute the intelligence and forethought that a smart person had in picking the stock all by themselves. If I told you how to get rich, I would be taking money from them and giving it to you.

Getting back to my “proper” universe is tricky but possible. Yes, another jump would take me to a different family.

Cement block…good question. The hard part of traveling to other world lines is just that. There is a system of clocks and gravity sensors that sample the environment before dropping out. Its called VGL, (variable gravity lock). If a cement block were there, the machine would “backtrack” until it sensed relative congruity to the original gravity sample. A great deal of time and effort goes into picking just the right spot since you can not physically move during a displacement.

Mr. “0”
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
2,431
7
0
#29
posted with permission:
TimeTravel_0-
Greetings:

Please keep in mind a couple of points as I answer your questions. First, Iam not a physicist. "Time travel" is only a tool that allowed me to do my
job 1975. Most airline pilots are probably not aerospace engineers.
Second, let me give you an example of the position we are in. Imagine you
live in the year 1900 and a "time traveler" attempts to explain how a jet
engine works. Even though the invention of the airplane is only a decade inthe future, he would have to find some frame of reference to explain the
basics of flight. Then, he would have to outline the mechanics of how the
engine works. As amazing as it would sound, the jet would be invented about thirty years later.

Pamela: 1. can you explain to me in detail the basic physics and mathematics behind how the machine operates? and exactly how it distorts gravity.

Timetravel_0: 1) Time travel is achieved by altering gravity. This concept is already proven by atomic clock experiments. The closer an observer is to a gravity source (high mass), the slower time passes for them. Traveling at high speeds mimics this effect which = the twin paradox of faster than light travel. However, this type of gravity manipulation is not sufficient to alter your world line.

The basic math to alter world lines exists right now. Tipler first
described a working "time machine" through his theory of massive rotating
spheres. I apologize for the web site but it was the only one I could find
quickly.
http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Station/5763/time.html

Certain types of black holes also exhibit the "time travel" abilities of
Tipler cylinders. Kerr was one of the first to describe the dual event
horizons of a rotating black hole. As with Tipler's cylinders, it was
possible to travel on a "time-like" trip through a Kerr black hole and end
up in a different world line without being squished by the gravity of the
singularity.
http://www.physics.fsu.edu/courses/fall98/ast1002/section4/blackholes/fig11-13/fig11-132.htm
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html
http://www.leonllo.freeservers.com/blackworm.html
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~cramer/RelViz/text/geom_web/node4.html


(deleted).......................................................
The mass and gravitational field of a microsingularity can then be
manipulated by "injecting" electrons onto its surface. By rotating two
electric microsigularities at high speed, it is possible to create and
modify a local gravity sinusoid that replicates the affects of a Kerr black
hole.

For those asking how come a microsingularity doesn't swallow the Earth or
want to know details about the size, stability, mass, temperature and
resulting Hawking radiation from such a thing.. those details I must keep to myself.

Pamela: 2. can you travel to the future as well as the past? my understanding of the machine is the trip is recorded so you can get back to your original time line but what about a future beyond your time line are you able to access it as well?
or does it have to be open by a future chrononaunt?

Timetravel_0: Yes, you can travel into the future and it takes less energy than going into the past.

Pamela: 3.I dont see the computer in the device. is it the hand held device on the side of the larger device? If so what kind of power supply does the
computer work off of is it the battery as well or some type of crystal?

Timetravel_0: The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus.
There are actually three computers linked together that take the same
signals from the gravity sensors and clocks. They use a Borda error
correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL
system.

Pamela:4.Is your DNA remaining stable in this world or does it shift? does time traveling affect your body or aura or spirit in any way you know of?

timetravel_o: 4) I am not aware of any physical change to my DNA or "aura". I do however seem to be more susceptible to colds.

Pamela: 5. when you go back to the future will we remember you?

Time travel_0: Yes, you will remember me if you want to. World lines do not change that way and I will only become a insignificant part of your history.
 

Fast

New member
Jul 16, 2000
47
0
0
www.FastWalker2.org
#30
mm..General Electric built a time machine for the government?

or are time machines so common in the future that there makes and models are as commonly varied as our age's car models..?


Fast Out
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#31
I would equate the "future" GM distortion units to their current jet engines. The first one worked great but they can always make it better.

The C204 unit uses 4 cesium clocks. The C206 uses 6 cesium clocks but they use an optical system to check the oscillation frequency. This makes the world line divergance confidence much higher.
 

Shadow

New member
Jul 27, 2002
343
0
0
SLC UT USA
#32
Time Traveler-0

If you could bring some material thing back to your time in 2036 what would it be?

Could I travel to a future that was, say 0.5 seconds ahead of now? In the same vien, if you just happened to arrive at "the year 2000" a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just 'landed soonby"? In other words, what makes this time line be 'now' at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?

As far as how wonderfull your people are in the time after the war I'm very happy for you. Maybe they succeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3billion people. Something that could not be done with the nuclear sledge hammer. Perhaps the enemy released a killer virus that zeros in on only those who carried the Idiot gene?

2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street adress then? I'll stop in and swap tales from days of old....assuming I live that long.
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
2,431
7
0
#33
what will the year 2036 be like?

pamela: 1.I will ask you about your environment then and I want to know about the family life and also about your religion. what religion has survived? Do you believe in Jesus Christ or someone else. Do people still pray to God? Do you still have churches?

timetravel_0: Yes I believe in Jesus Christ and we pray to God in churches. There aresome differences you may be interested in. Religion is a major part ofpeoples life in 2036. Pain and change tend to bring people together andcloser to God. However, religion is far more personal than it is now.
There are no huge, centralized religions and people talk openly about theirbeliefs. It might also interest you to know that the day of worship is
Saturday, the day God meant to be the Sabbath and the 10 commandments have
been restored to the "10" that God gave us.

pamela: 2. what kind of jobs do people do and do they still work long hours? whats the majority of job types in the future?

timetravel_0: Life is much more rural in the future but "high" technology is used to communicate and travel. People raise a great deal of their own food and do more "farm" work. Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company
that maintains "wireless" internet nodes.

pamela: 3.what is a typical day like for someone in your time? do you still havethe internet? has it advanced to all virtual reality yet?
what type of diseases are you currently dealing with? are there still advances in science?

timetravel_0: A typical day...hmmm. Life has changed so much over my lifetime that it's hard to pin down a "normal" day. When I was 13, I was a soldier. As a teenager, I helped my dad haul cargo. I went to college when I was 31 and I was recruited to "time travel" shortly after that. Again...I suppose an average day in 2036 is like an average day on the farm.

pamela: 4.Is there still a post office? how do you receive messages from one
another? you said most people talk face to face.

timetravel-0: Yes...there is a post office. The internet is still alive and well in the future. People spend more time talking because life is more centered around the community. I've noticed the same type of effect here when the power goes off. People tend to come out of their homes and actually spend time with their neighbors. There is a lot more personal trust and less paranoia.

pamela: 5.what type of houseing do you live in?

timetravel_0: When I'm with my parents, I live in a community made up of "tree houses" on a large river in Florida. The river floods sometimes and we have access to the Gulf. Most of our neighbors make a living off the sea or in moving cargo by boat.

pamela: 6.what started the war? and who fought in it? who won?what countries were destroyed and what survived?

timetravel_0: Wow...that's a big question. There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.

pamela: 7.did you ever discover what aliens were and ufos?

timetravel_0: No new information there. I find that an interesting subject myself. Personally, I think "UFOs" might be time travelers with very sophisticated distortion units. But that might be a bit wacky.

pamela: 8. what type of environmental problems do you know of that exist? do you have pure water to drink? are you mostly vegetarian-seems how most people are going that way today.

timetravel_0: One of the biggest reasons why food production is localized is because the environment is so screwed up with disease and radiation. We are making huge strides in getting it cleaned up. Water is produced on a community level and we do eat meat..that we raise ourselves.

pamela: 9. are they still messing around with genetics? and altering the food and animals?

timetravel_0: Yes...genetic engineering is used but it's like any other technology. It can be good and bad. One thing we did not do was create more hybrid seeds. What are people thinking???

pamela:10.what do you believe about life after death?

timetravel_0: I am a Christian Agnostic. I do not believe faith alone is enough to get us back to God. I'm not sure what happens when we die but I'm pretty sure it's not a walk in the park.

pamela: 11. do you have an advances in spacetravel or exploration?
timetravel_0: No. We are working on it.

pamela: 12. what new inventions do we have to look forward to?
timetravel_0: Hmmm....I hesitate to answer but I'll give a bit. Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solar cells are big deals. Computer technology and software gets MUCH better.

pamela: 13. what brings you the greatest joy on Earth? what are some things you and others do for entertainment and fun?

timetravel_0: I like this question. My greatest joy is sailing. For fun, I enjoy swimming, playing cards, reading, playing games on the net and talking with people who live in other countries. As a community, we celebrate much more and have bon fires and dances. My hobby is sorting through old magazines and videos of life before the war.

pamela: 14. what are your schools and universities like?

timetravel_0: After the war, early new communities gathered around the current Universities. That's where the libraries were. I went to school at Fort UF which is now called the University of Florida. Not too much is different except the military is large part of people's life and we spend a great deal of time in the fields and farms at the "University" or Fort.

pamela: 15. what are some of your fondest memories growing up? what kind of
cameras do you have now to take pictures of the family? did they ever invent a hologram camera?

timetravel_0: Most of my memories growing up are not fond. Life was very hard. Simple things make me happy like hugging my mother and father. Yes, we have cameras. More digital. Film is used like painting is today. No hologram camera though.

pamela: 16. do you still have telephones? what is your major source of energy that you use? solar power? electricity? have you discovered new energies.

timetravel_0: Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized. It amazes me how much power is wasted now. Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.

pamela: 17. how do you take care of your elderly? and your poor and your orphans? and the ones who cannot work?

timetravel_0: The elderly are highly revered and looked after on a community level. So are orphans. There is always something people can do now matter what. The idea of avoiding work is looked down on. Everyone pulls together to keep the COMMUNITY strong.

pamela: 18. what is the dress style of the time what do you wear on your bodies as a style?

timetravel_0: Hats are more common in the future and flashy colors are less common. Dress is much more functional and we "dress up" when ever we get a chance. I have noticed that no one in this time dresses for occasions even when they have the clothes. Why do people wear shorts to church?

pamela: 19. do people wear their hair differently than we do?every generation has a different style what is the style of your time? what is popular for kids to wear? for adults to wear?

timetravel-0: We do not spend nearly the amount of time on our hair as people do now. Women like to wear their hair longer and men have it much shorter. Both sexes shave it all off when they're in active military service.

pamela: 20. are surgeries mostly performed by lasars? or were there new
technologies developed?

timetravel_o: Far less medical treatment in the future even though its more advanced. People die when they now its time to die. No lasers. Genetic medicine and cloning organs are the obvious new techs in the future.

pamela: 21. do you still have the current form of government, presidents and vice presidents like we do?

timetravel_0: No. The Constitution was changed after the war. We have 5 presidents that are voted in and out on different term periods. The vice president is the president of the senate and they are voted separately.

pamela: 22. how do you get from one place to another with not many cars around.do you teleport from one place to another?

timetravel_0: We have cars...just not a whole bunch of them. There is public transportation from city to city.
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#34
If I could bring some material thing back to your time from 2036...it would be a copy of the new US Constitution.
Yes, you could travel to a future that was 0.5 seconds ahead of now but not with my machine. The C204 uses the second as the basic unit of measure. The C206 may be capable of .05 sec.

(In the same vien, if you just happened to arrive at "the year 2000" a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just 'landed soonby"?)

No "you" would not. But the "you" on that world line would.

(In other words, what makes this time line be 'now' at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?)

It is believed there are some sort of measurable quantum differences in world lines. I am not an expert on that so I can offer little information.

(As far as how wonderfull your people are in the time after the war I'm very happy for you. Maybe they succeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3billion people.)

Yes, we did.

(2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street adress then? I'll stop in and swap tales from days of old....assuming I live that long.)

You would be welcome in my home.
 

pamela

New member
Nov 8, 1999
2,431
7
0
#35
Timetravel_0-
1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?
2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?

3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?

4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?

5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?

6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#36
(1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?)
In 2036, a great deal of effort is going into "repairing" our environment. I was sent to 1975 to get a computer system and take it back to 2036. Time travel is not a secret in 2036 and I expect it will become more common.

(2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?)

Right now, its used to get information or "items" that would be helpful in getting a post WWIII world back to a normal condition. There are 7 other time travelers in my unit.

(3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?)

Right now, most of our practical missions are from 1960 to 1980. There is a great deal of research into later and future periods but the farther you go, the lower the divergence confidence of the world line.

(4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?)

Yes.

(5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?)

It's a 1987 4WD. The vehicle needs a strong suspension system to handle the weight of the distortion unit.

(6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?)

Yes.
 
C

Curious

Guest
#37
Timetravel_0, I have a couple of tech questions. If you change "vehical" do you have to re-calibrate the unit? (Does mass effect the field strength or power level needed to travel?) What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity? (tri-coil, or quadrature coil, etc.) Can your unit also dimensionally travel? (can it move laterally in time as well as forward/reverse)
Curious
 
S

Shadow

Guest
#38
To TimeTravel_0

Have you seen the movies 'Terminator' and 'Terminater 2'? We have a lot of good movies in this time but it is hard to pick them out from the huge piles of "trash movies".

Movies are contemporary liturature.
 
S

Shadow

Guest
#39
TT_0,

If your conveyence is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.

Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?
 

Fast

New member
Jul 16, 2000
47
0
0
www.FastWalker2.org
#40
TT0-
if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here?
treason!

a VW Bus would make a fine time machine :)

Fast Out
 

Fast

New member
Jul 16, 2000
47
0
0
www.FastWalker2.org
#41
to TT0:
"--The C204 unit
is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour
at 100% power.
--" 10 years an hour?
from 2036 wouldnt that take three+ hours??
how could you survive with merly the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle's field??


Fast Out
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#42
To Curious:

(If you change "vehical" do you have to re-calibrate the unit?)

Yes. But its a function of the VGL system. A gravity baseline is taken and rechecked every thime the unit is used. A new vehicle would alter the gravity signature.

(What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity?)

I am not a phycist so I can not answer that to your level of sophistication. The singularities are held in an enclosed magnetic field.

(Can your unit also dimensionally travel?)

No. However, the longer the unit is on past a safe divergance confidence, the "stranger" the world line becomes. The unit I have is safe to about 1% for every sixty years at max power.
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#43
TO Shadow:
(Have you seen the movies 'Terminator' and 'Terminater 2'?)

Yes. I've seen those movies. Very entertaining.

(If your conveyence is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.)

My goal was to reach a certain date and time which is converted into seconds for the computer to make its calculations. I do not pick the second. Its more important to have a low divergance confidence number.

(Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?)

I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#44
To Fast:

(if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here?
treason!)

Why would it be treason?
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#45
To Fast Out:

(10 years an hour? from 2036 wouldnt that take three+ hours?? how could you survive with merly the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle's field??)

Yes...that's about right but my initial trip was to 1975, not 2000. I guess its a question of how many technical details you really want or you feel I'm making up. We do take addtional 02 and the air pocket is a bit larger than you might think.
 
C

Curious

Guest
#46
Timetravel_O I am surprised they went with the VGL system over the "time lock" system. It must be more accurate as far as timeline devergance. No direct lateral travel huh? That means some places are not easily accessable.(there is a safe place to hide, LOL) One last question, Can anybody operate the 204 unit? Or is it safe guarded by a "key of some kind? Thanks for answering. Yes, you would be welcome at my home.
Curious
 

Fast

New member
Jul 16, 2000
47
0
0
www.FastWalker2.org
#47
TT0:
the chinese were said to threaten death by torture to those who gave away the secret of silk making...why not time travel also?

i now understand the oxygen part,thought i found a slip in your trip(to coin a phrase) to our(or 1975...) time...


why is it you traveled to 1975 anyway??

Fast Out
 
S

Searcher of Truth

Guest
#48
Time travel_0,
I followed the link to your pictures and if time travel is not a secret in your "time" then why do the top of your pictures say "restricted file"??
restricted file means LIMITED TO AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY.
Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this "time".
what is your true purpose for posting assumingly "restricted" government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?
Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?
Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?

-SOT
 
C

Curious

Guest
#49
To Seeker of Truth. The chances of one of us building a C204 are slim to none. (and Slim's dead) Who's to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergance factor is so low, everbody will forget about this in a short time. I wouldn't worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory...
 
Nov 1, 2000
62
2
0
Tampa, FL
#50
(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this "time".)

Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don’t care what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not expect people to believe them.

(what is your true purpose for posting assumingly "restricted" government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?)

The restricted nature of the documents I posted refers to the departmentalized nature of the technical information. The manual is supposed to remain with the unit. The current F-16 fighter jet probably has an operations manual. All the information in it is not secret but no one wants it to “walk” away from the plane.

(Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?)

I am here for personal reasons. For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. Does that seem more likely now? Actually it’s quite amazing to see what’s happening. I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months but to see it unfold is very interesting. Before I leave, I’ll try and post my report.

I am curious… will anyone be upset if Florida’s votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current “confusion”?

(Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?)

Yes.